WASHINGTON, D.C., USA — Congressman Peter Meijer (R-Grand Rapids) is back from a surprise trip to Afghanistan. The freshman Republican says he went there because he wanted to see for himself what was going on. His trip - with fellow Congressman Seth Moulton (D-Ohio) was just before the suicide bombing that killed more than a dozen U-S servicemembers. I asked him what he learned during the trip. He answered: just how much we currently rely on the Taliban for safety.
"I did not know the extent to which we were wholly dependent on the Taliban, for our security at that airport. And obviously, as we saw with the suicide bombing on Thursday, the Taliban do not have strong control. But right now, we essentially have a ceasefire, a detente, where we are able to get individuals through those Taliban checkpoints, get them to the airport and get them rescued. That has not been without hiccups. That has not been without horrific instances of people getting turned away, or people getting beaten. But it is a better system than if we were in the position of actively fighting with the Taliban."
Now that he's back, he says he knew there would be criticism. But he didn't expect what he says are lies, like accusations that the pair took seats that could have been had by refugees.
"That is false. We waited until there was a flight that had empty jump seats that could not be filled by those evacuees for security reasons up on the flight deck of a C 17. Or plan going in was to be completely independent of the military on the ground. The only reason why we have Any personnel and there was a driver who was part of a general security detail. After many back and forth, he said, No, you're not taking resources away, they would be on standby. They're only here in case I need to move. And I have no movements planned, though that was the only way and scenario in which we use any us resources. You know, at every point, our goal was to be as quiet and as minimally disruptive as possible."
The full interview and a transcript of that interview is below.
Nick LaFave: I know it is hard to summarize probably everything that you saw. But if you could boil it down for our viewers, what did you see? And how would you characterize it?
Rep. Peter Meijer (R-Michigan): I saw incredible acts of heroism, I saw American men and women, just making this country proud. But they were put in the most impossible situation you can imagine. These are individuals who have been through hell, and are doing everything they can to provide for the safe rescue of those who need to be evacuated. And just, you know, incredible scenes of both desperation for those who wanted to get in and wanted a better life. And selfless service, especially on behalf of the Marines and others who were manning those gates, who knew that they were taking a grave risk, but also knew that every minute those gates were open was another minute that someone could get to safety. That was another minute that a life could be saved. And I think our nation owes them a debt of gratitude.
LaFave: What do you know, now that you did not know before your trip over there?
Meijer: I did not know the extent to which we were wholly dependent on the Taliban, for our security at that airport. And obviously, as we saw with the suicide bombing on Thursday, the Taliban do not have strong control. But right now, we essentially have a ceasefire, a détente, where we are able to get individuals through those Taliban checkpoints, get them to the airport and get them rescued. That has not been without hiccups. That has not been without horrific instances of people getting turned away, or people getting beaten. But it is a better system than if we were in the position of actively fighting with the Taliban. And we still retain capabilities. But the fact of the matter is that an open urban conflict with the Taliban in Kabul would not only make it nearly impossible for American forces to leave that hard to defend airbase, but it would also result in the loss of life of scores of American servicemembers. And the people caught in the crossfire would be the very civilian, the very civilians, the American citizens, permanent residents, and Afghans who loyally supported our forces that were trying to rescue. This is not a choice between good and bad is between bad and worse. And right now we are stuck having to negotiate and work with the Taliban to secure our safety.
LaFave: It's hard for me to contextualize the numbers because I'm not there. And we truly don't know how many who are needing to get out. But it seems as though we are getting out a substantial number of people daily right now. What needs to happen moving forward, and what would you... I hate to put it in, in a win and loss term. But what is a win for you now at this point moving forward knowing that the President still intends to be done on August 31?
Meijer: Our office like many offices, we've been trying to, to kind of put those victories in the win column, individuals were able to get to safety get through the airport and get onwards for processing in places like Kuwait, Ali aslim airbase or Qatar, Aloo date airbase, both of which congressman Moulton and I visited after Kabul to better understand that full pipeline. But the thing that I think we need to remember is that come August 31, this mission does not end, it just will not be supported, you know, out of Kabul airport, it will not be supported in the way that it is today. But we retain an obligation to get American citizens, American permanent residents, special immigrant visa holders and others who have proven their loyalty to the US and put their lives on the line to help us. We owe it to them to continue to fulfill that promise, using whatever means necessary to get them to safety.
LaFave: You've heard the criticism, you've read the criticism, many saying it anonymously from the from the administration that it was a distraction. It was dangerous. It took away resources even as far as the security detail to keep you safe while you're over there. One CIA analyst Phil Mudd on CNN said you and Congressman Moulton should lose your committee assignments. In general, what do you have to say to the criticism that the two of you have received since you returned?
Meijer: Well, honestly, I knew we would be criticized, I didn't think there'd be the level of just lies and deception that we've seen, you know, folks accusing us of taking seats that would have gone to refugees or evacuees coming out. That is false. We waited until there was a flight that had empty jump seats that could not be filled by those evacuees for security reasons up on the flight deck of a C 17. Or plan going in was to be completely independent of the military on the ground. The only reason why we have any personnel and there was a driver who was part of a general security detail. After many back and forth, he said, "No, you're not taking resources away, they would be on standby. They're only here in case I need to move. And I have no movements planned." Though that was the only way and scenario in which we use any US resources. You know, at every point, our goal was to be as quiet and as minimally disruptive as possible. Now, we did sit and talk with some individuals for 10 or 15 minutes. So that did that was 10 or 15 minutes that we spent in conversations, but our goal is to be able to report back to share to brief our colleagues and to brief the public on what's going on, because we have not seen honesty from this administration. And whether that is because their information is outdated, or it's inaccurate, or it's just incomplete. I can't say. But I feel like we have been deceived In this scenario, we don't understand what's going on. And the next 20 days will dictate the next 20 years for Afghanistan and for that region. And it is critical, we get it right. It is critical we provide our members of Congress and the American people with the most accurate and timely information possible.
LaFave: Our negotiating and work with the Taliban goes back to the previous administration. Now we are very much relying on them to keep us safe at that airport. How much do you trust the Taliban right now?
Meijer: About as far as I can throw them. I mean, some of the individuals who are sitting and talking with the Taliban right now, these are not naïve, inexperienced individuals. I mean, these are members of our military with decades in Special Operations who know this conflict intimately, and are very aware of what leverage we have and what leverage they have. So I trust those who are on the ground who were involved in these incredibly difficult conversations. But we're not doing this because we want to those negotiations that deconfliction is taking place, because we have to. And one of the things that frustrates me is the Taliban initially agreed to the September 11 deadline. Now, the optics on that were bad. That was one of the reasons why President Biden moved it forward to August 31. As soon as we moved it to August 31. They said, Okay, that's the new deadline, effectively cutting in half the amount of time we had to plan this withdrawal, and to plan the evacuation of the tens of thousands of American citizens, permanent residents, their families, and loyal Afghans who worked alongside our forces. You know, we cut that time in half because of optics, and it just is infuriating.
LaFave: Last question, and then I'll let you go. Um, you served in Iraq, you worked in Afghanistan. I've talked to a few different veterans who worked in Kabul, they were at Bagram. They're all over the country. They're having a hard time with this, personally. What are you thinking internally, watching, essentially, this country fall to hell in a matter of weeks, that we spent two decades trying to build up?
Meijer: I'm thinking the clock is ticking. And there'll be time for introspection later. But now is the time for action. Now is the time to do whatever we can in this moment. I think many of us who've been working on this issue, and I've been working on this issue since April, that was when we first started talking to the administration saying, "Okay, if you're withdrawing, what are we doing about the people who need to be evacuated? Speed this up. What legislative support? Do you need every single thing they asked for?" We provided in Congress, we had guys like Jason Crow, on the Democratic side, Mike Walton, the Republican side, myself, Representative Moulton, we're all working hard to try to get the administration to move with a sense of purpose on this warning of this very nightmare scenario that came to pass. So we cannot change the past, there will be accountability. And that is something that we need to do. But in this moment, every morning when I wake up, it is WhatsApp messages, signal messages, text messages, coordinating. We embedded somebody who's part of the outside effort within our congressional office and have rededicated several of our office on your constituent relations individuals to focus on getting our constituents and those who need help out of there. That is our mission at the moment. And that is where my focus is.
You can watch the full interview below:
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